MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, you have no knowledge of the methods by which the SS would be able to speed up production by prisoners of war. That is the way you want that to stand?
MILCH: No, that is not the way I want it to stand. I have to think this point over for a moment. I believe the point was whether or not prisoners of war should be made available. It was not a question of prisoners of war working for the SS, but of their being made available for work. That, I take it was the point.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Put at the disposal of the SS, you mean?
Well, let us go on to the 33d Conference by the Central Planning Board, held on the 16th of February 1943, at which Speer and Sauckel among others appear to have been present. The English translation is on Page 28; the German, Pages 2276 to 2307. There was at this meeting, to summarize, considerable discussion of the labor situation, first a report from Schreiber, and then Timm gave a general account of the labor situation, and I call your attention to your contribution on Page 2298 at the top.
MILCH: Yes, I have just read it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: It is as follows:
“Milch: We have demanded that in the anti-aircraft artillery a certain percentage of personnel should consist of Russians. Fifty thousand in all should be brought in. Thirty thousand are already employed as gunners. This is an amusing thing, that Russians must work the guns . . .”
What was amusing about making the Russian prisoners of war work the guns?
MILCH: The words “We have demanded,” do not mean the Central Planning Board, but that Hitler made this demand.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: “We” means Hitler?
MILCH: Yes, the German Government. And I myself find it strange that prisoners of war should be made to shoot at planes of their allies. We did not like it because it meant that these men could no longer work for us. We were opposed to their being used in the anti-aircraft artillery.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You said: “This is an amusing thing that the Russians must work the guns.”
What was amusing about it?
MILCH: What is meant by amusing? . . . peculiar, strange, I cannot say, however, whether this word was actually used. I have not seen the minutes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I call your attention to the rest of your contribution.
“. . . 20,000 are still needed. Yesterday I received a letter from the Army High Command, stating: We cannot release any more men, we have not enough ourselves. Thus there is no prospect for us.”
Whom does “for us” refer to, if not to your industry requirements?
MILCH: I consider these minutes incorrect, it has never been discussed in this manner, it must be wrong. I cannot accept the minutes as they stand. To clarify this matter I may say that the proposal was to take people out of the armament industry and put them into anti-aircraft defense. We who were concerned with armament did not want to release these men and were opposed to it. That was the idea of the whole thing, and the OKH declared that they did not have enough people.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I understand the sense of this to be that you applied for certain workmen for the armament industry and that the Army High Command refused to give you the men, saying that they are already employed making guns and on other work. Now, is that the sense of that, or is it not?
MILCH: No, not quite.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, just tell me what the sense of it is.
MILCH: As far as I remember, the armament industry was to release 50,000 Russian prisoners of war to the Air Force for anti-aircraft defense, and the armament industry could not spare these people.
THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid we must adjourn due to some technical difficulty.
[A recess was taken.]
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, it may be convenient to you to know that we are going to rise at 4:30 today.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I hope to have finished before.
[Turning to the witness.] I will ask to have your attention called to Page 2297, in the English translation about Page 28, to your contribution, which reads as follows:
“Milch: There is of course a front also somewhere in the East. This front will be held for a certain time. The only useful thing the Russians will find in an area evacuated by us, is people. The question is whether the people should not generally be taken back as far as 100 kilometers behind the front line. The whole civilian population goes 100 kilometers behind the front.”
Do you find that?
MILCH: Yes, I have found it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And I understood you this morning to state that it was a rule promulgated in your book that the civilian population should not be interfered with.
MILCH: From the last paragraph, according to which people were no longer to be employed on digging trenches, it appears that these people were last employed on this work. I cannot say what kind of people these were, only that they were already employed somewhere.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you knew that. You knew that they were being used for that kind of work?
MILCH: So it says here. I do not remember it any more. It has been recorded in the minutes, provided they are correct.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you knew they were being used, the civilian population was being forced to dig trenches for your troops.
MILCH: Today I cannot remember any more, but at that time it was discussed according to the minutes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I will ask to have your attention called to the minutes of Conference Number 11 of the Central Planning Board, held on 22d of July 1942; German, Page 3062; English translation, 38.
First let me call your attention to the fact that at that meeting it appears that among those present were Speer, yourself, Körner. Did Körner represent the Reich Marshal?
MILCH: Yes, for the Four Year Plan; he was the representative for the Four Year Plan.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: At all meetings of this Board, Körner represented the Reich Marshal did he not?
MILCH: Yes. He represented him as regards the Four Year Plan.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And Sauckel was present, and representatives from the Iron Association, the Coal Association, and the Ministry for Armament and Munitions.
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: There was considerable discussion of the labor problem, and the requirements of those industries. On Page 3062 I call your attention to this entry:
“General Field Marshal Milch undertakes to accelerate the procuring of the Russian prisoners of war from the camps.”
I ask you what measures you expected to take to accelerate procuring prisoners of war from the camps.
MILCH: As I was a soldier I undertook to submit this question to the OKW, which was in charge of prisoners of war.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You did not personally deal with the prisoners of war, but you undertook to obtain them from the OKW?
MILCH: The government had put these prisoners of war at our disposal for work. The transfer was very slow, and as we had to deal with the OKW in this matter, I was asked and I undertook to request the OKW to speed up the transfer.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now let us turn to Conference Number 36, dated 22d of April 1943; the English translation, Page 13; German, 2125. There again I call your attention to the fact that Speer, yourself, Sauckel, and Körner were among those present. There again you discussed the labor problem, did you not?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And Körner reported as follows:
“On