MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And in each case, as I understand you, you intervened to help them.
BODENSCHATZ: On the instructions of the Reich Marshal, I helped in all cases that were submitted to me.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did you know of any other cases that came to the Staff in which help was not given to the imprisoned persons?
BODENSCHATZ: I do not know anything about that. I only heard from Dr. Gritzbach, Chief of Staff, that requests that came to him also were settled in a humane way.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, were the persons that you intervened for innocent of crime or were you helping out those who were guilty of crime?
BODENSCHATZ: Those I helped were innocent people.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So it came to your notice that innocent people were being put in concentration camps?
BODENSCHATZ: Could you please repeat that question.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: It came to your notice that innocent people then were being put in concentration camps?
BODENSCHATZ: Had not been put into concentration camps, but were destined for them.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I thought you said you intervened for some who had been arrested.
BODENSCHATZ: Yes; they were not taken to concentration camps. I will give you a practical example. A comrade of mine, from the Richthofen Squadron, a Jew by the name of Luther, was arrested by the Gestapo, that is to say, he was not taken to a concentration camp, but first was simply arrested by the Gestapo. His lawyer informed me. I informed the Reich Marshal of this case, and the Reich Marshal instructed me to have this man freed from his temporary custody by the Gestapo in Hamburg. He was not yet in a concentration camp. So far as I know this case happened in 1943.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What was he charged with when he was arrested?
BODENSCHATZ: He was arrested because he was a Jew, and he had been told that he had committed an offense against decency in that he had been with an Aryan woman in a hotel.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did you make any inquiries as to whether the charge was true?
BODENSCHATZ: I did not have to make such inquiries because I had no difficulty in obtaining his release. When I called up, he was released and thereafter stayed under the protection of Hermann Göring.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Whom did you call up to get his release?
BODENSCHATZ: The chief of the Gestapo office in Hamburg. I do not know the name. I did not make the call myself but had it done by my assistant, Ministerialrat Dr. Böttger.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So that the Gestapo would release persons upon the request of Hermann Göring?
BODENSCHATZ: Not from Hermann Göring’s office, but the Reich Marshal gave instructions that it should be carried out, and it was carried out.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I thought you said your assistant called up. Did Göring also call the Gestapo himself?
BODENSCHATZ: No, he did not call himself, not in this case.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So that even though this man may have been guilty of the charge, if he belonged to the Luftwaffe he was released, on the word of the Reich Marshal?
BODENSCHATZ: He was not a member of the Luftwaffe, he was a civilian. He had previously been one of our comrades in the Richthofen Squadron. He was not in the Wehrmacht during the war.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But your instructions were to release all persons who were Jews or who were from the Luftwaffe? Were those your instructions from Göring?
BODENSCHATZ: The Reich Marshal told me, again and again, that in such cases I should act humanely, and I did so in every case.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How did you find out that Jews were arrested against whom there were no charges?
BODENSCHATZ: In one case, in the case of the two Ballin families in Munich, these were two elderly married couples, more than 70 years old. These two couples were to be arrested, and I was informed of this. I told the Reich Marshal about it, and he told me that these two couples should be taken to a foreign country. That was the case of the two Ballin couples who, in 1923, when Hermann Göring was seriously wounded in front of the Feldherrnhalle, and was taking refuge in a house, received him and gave him help. These two families were to be arrested.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: For what?
BODENSCHATZ: They were to be arrested because there was a general order that Jews should be taken to collection camps.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you knew of that order?
BODENSCHATZ: I did not know of the order. It was only through these examples which were brought to my notice that it became clear to me that this evacuation was to take place. I had never read the order myself nor even heard of it, because I had nothing to do with it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: It came to your attention that Jews were being thrown into concentration camps merely because they were Jews?
BODENSCHATZ: In this case I am not speaking of concentration camps, but it was ordered that people were to be brought to collection camps.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Not concentration camps, but special camps? Where were they going from there?
BODENSCHATZ: That I do not know.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And where was this special camp that you speak of?
BODENSCHATZ: I do not know where they were to be taken. I was told they were to be taken away.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But neither you nor Göring had any suspicion that if they were taken to concentration camps any harm would come to them, did you?
BODENSCHATZ: I knew nothing about what took place in the concentration camps.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now did you not hear about the concentration camps, and was not the purpose of your saving these people from going to them, that the people who went there were mistreated?
BODENSCHATZ: I must reiterate that I freed people from their first arrest by the Gestapo that were not yet in the concentration camp.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What would the Gestapo take them into custody for, if not the concentration camps?
BODENSCHATZ: What purpose the Gestapo was pursuing with these arrests I do not know.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But you intervened to save them from the Gestapo without even finding out whether the Gestapo had cause for arresting them?
BODENSCHATZ: If the Gestapo arrested any one, then they must have had something against him.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But you made no inquiry into that, did you?
BODENSCHATZ: I have already said it was generally known that these people were taken to collection camps, not concentration camps. It was known—many German people knew that they were to be taken away. They knew that the people were taken to work camps, and in these work camps they were put to work.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Forced labor?
BODENSCHATZ: It was just ordinary work. I knew, for instance, that in Lodz the people worked in the textile industry.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And where were they kept while they were doing that work?
BODENSCHATZ: I cannot say, for I do not know.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: They were in a camp, were they not?
BODENSCHATZ: I cannot tell you all that, for I do not know.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You would not know about that?
BODENSCHATZ: I have no idea.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What is the difference between a work camp and a concentration camp? You have drawn that distinction.
BODENSCHATZ: