I said, "How badly?"
He said, "In the shoulder."
I cried, and said, "Marina, Lee has been shot."
So Marina went into the chief of police's at Irving home, to call Mrs. Paine, to get the diapers and things ready. They decided and told us, with me in the car and Marina, that it would not be a good thing for us to go to Mrs. Paine's home and get these things, that Marina should go in the chief of police's home and call and tell Mrs. Paine what she wanted.
And one or two of the agents would go and get the things for Marina.
So I am sitting in the car with the agent. Marina is in the home now—remember.
So something comes over the mike, and the Secret Service agent says, "Do not repeat. Do not repeat."
I said, "My son is gone isn't he?"
And he didn't answer.
I said, "Answer me. I want to know. If my son is gone, I want to meditate."
He said, "Yes, Mrs. Oswald, your son has just expired."
Mr. Rankin. Now, which agent told you this?
Mrs. Oswald. This is the agent that was also now sent to me to protect me in Fort Worth, Tex.—Mr. Mike Howard, who was the agent that rode in the car with President Johnson, who was the agent that was at Six Flags, that was in charge, who was the agent that was assigned to protect Baine Johnson at the dormitory. He is also the same agent that was sent to protect me in Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. Rankin. Now, who was the other agent that was with you that day? Was there another Secret Service agent with you?
Mrs. Oswald. He went into the home—he escorted Marina into the chief of police's home, and I do not know his name. And he is not the other agent that I want to know the name of.
Wait just a minute.
I don't know this man's name. But he is not the other agent that is involved.
Mr. Rankin. Now, about what time on that Sunday did you learn of your son's death?
Mrs. Oswald. Well, now, here is your time element. I said Robert and Mr. Gregory and the Secret Service were there approximately from 11:30. And I knew nothing about the shooting. And then we had to go to Irving and everything. Then they told us Lee was shot. So now we are bringing up to the time—it all fits in—which was 1 o'clock or 1:30.
As a matter of fact, then when I got the news, I went into the home, and I said, "Marina, our boy is gone."
We both cried. And they were all watching the sequence on television. The television was turned to the back, where Marina and I could not see it. They sat us on the sofa, and his wife gave us coffee. And the back of the television was to us. And the men and all, a lot of men were looking at the television. It probably just happened, because the man said, "Do not repeat." And I insisted.
They gave us coffee.
And then it later came out in the paper that—a story about the chief of police, how it was set up for the women, that we should not know.
We were to go to his house. There was a story about that from this chief of police of Irving.
Mr. Rankin. What paper is that?
Mrs. Oswald. The Star Telegram paper.
All of my papers were taken out of my home by Secret Service men. While at Six Flags, they saved the papers for me. We would not let the maids take the papers. And I brought all of those papers from the Six Flags, from the very beginning, to my home in Fort Worth, Tex. And every piece of paper out of my home was taken. So I did not—believe me, gentlemen, this seems strange, but it was 2 weeks later before I saw the picture of the way my son was shot.
Mr. Blair Justice of the Star Telegram gave me the back issues of papers. And it wasn't until then that I actually knew the tragedy, how my son was shot. Because they took all the papers, all my clippings and everything. I was left stranded, without any papers. And until Mr. Blair Justice brought me these back issues, some 2 weeks later, was the first time that I saw exactly the tragic way my son was shot.
Mr. Rankin. Was there any discussion between you and Marina about this?
Mrs. Oswald. About the shooting?
Mr. Rankin. Yes.
Mrs. Oswald. No. We didn't know. I was with Marina at the Executive Inn from the 22d until the shooting, the 24th—as I told you.
Then we left. And from the 24th to the 28th, at the Inn of the Six Flags, the agents and my son kept this from us. We did not know. We knew Lee was shot and dead. But we didn't know how. We didn't get to read a paper or watch television. We just had snatches of the television.
Mr. Rankin. Well, when you both learned that he was shot on that Sunday afternoon, did you and Marina say anything to each other?
Mrs. Oswald. Oh, yes. That is another story.
Immediately I said, "I want to see Lee." And Marina said, "I want see Lee, too."
And the chief of police and Mr. Gregory said, "Well, it would be better to wait until he was at the funeral home and fixed up."
I said, "No, I want to see Lee now."
Marina said, "Me, too, me want to see Lee."
They led us to believe that now they have taught her to do like this. But Marina has always spoken like that. I have acted as an interpreter for her, as I stated before, for an FBI agent. And she understood me. And he was satisfied that he didn't need an interpreter.
So she said, "I want to see Lee, too."
They didn't want us to see Lee, from the ugliness of it evidently. But I insisted, and so did Marina. So they could not do anything about it with the two women. So they decided to pacify us.
We got in the car. On the way in the car they are trying to get us to change our minds. And he said, Mr. Mike Howard—he was driving the car—"Mrs. Oswald for security reasons it would be much better if you would wait until later on to see Lee because this is a big thing."
I said, "For security reasons I want you to know that I am an American citizen, and even though I am poor I have as much right as any other human being, and Mrs. Kennedy was escorted to the hospital to see her husband. And I insist upon being escorted, and enough security to take me to the hospital to see my son."
Gentlemen, I require the same privilege.
So Mr. Mike Howard said, "All right, we will take you to the hospital.
"I want you to know when we get there we will not be able to protect you. Our security measures end right there. The police will then have you under protection. We cannot protect you."
I said, "That is fine. If I am to die, I will die that way. But I am going to see my son."
Mr. Gregory says—and in the most awful tone of voice, I will always remember this—remember, gentlemen, my son has been accused, I have just lost a son.
He said, "Mrs. Oswald, you are being so selfish. You are endangering this girl's life, and the life of these two children."
I want to elaborate on this. He is not thinking about me. He is thinking about the Russian girl. I am going to bring this over and over—that these Russian people are always considering this Russian girl. He snapped at me.
I said, "Mr. Gregory, I am not talking for my daughter-in-law. She can do what she wants. I am saying I want to see my son."
And so they brought us to the hospital. And Marina said, "I too want to see Lee."
After Mr. Gregory said that—"I, too, want to see Lee."
So then they did leave us at the entrance of the hospital, the Secret Service men, and then the police took over. We were escorted by the police in the hospital.
Mr. Rankin. About what time was that?