Mr. Jenner. Identify the page, please.
Mr. Oswald. On page 12, "I do not recall everything he said. I did try to point out to him that the evidence was overwhelming that he did kill Police Officer Tippit and possibly the President. To this he replied 'do not form any opinion on the so-called evidence.'"
Mr. Jenner. Is that all he said? He said nothing else?
Mr. Oswald. To that——
Mr. Jenner. In response to you?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. At no time when you interviewed him over the telephone while you were in that—the sixth floor—did he affirmatively deny either that he had shot Officer Tippit or that he shot the President?
Mr. Oswald. He did not admit to anything whatsoever.
Mr. Jenner. Nor did he deny it affirmatively—other than the remark that you have recorded in your memorandum?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct, sir.
Mr. McKenzie. In other words, Mr. Oswald, when you were talking there with your brother, in the city jail of Dallas, he did not deny that he had killed Officer Tippit, nor did he deny that he had assassinated President Kennedy?
Mr. Oswald. He did not admit to anything, sir.
Mr. McKenzie. And he didn't deny anything?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. McKenzie. Have you, or haven't you told this Commission that you believed a denial?
Mr. Jenner. Excuse me, Mr. McKenzie, I don't understand that question.
Mr. McKenzie. It says in this article that he told the Commission that he believed the denial.
Since there was no denial, there was nothing for you to believe.
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. Up to this moment he has never testified as to that, to my recollection.
Mr. McKenzie. That is correct.
Again, based on the evidence that you have read or heard in newspaper articles, whether it be evidence or not, but based on everything that you have heard or read, you now believe that your brother, Lee Harvey Oswald, did kill Mr. Tippit and assassinated President Kennedy, is that correct?
Mr. Oswald. Purely on the circumstantial evidence that has been brought to my attention or that I have read.
Mr. McKenzie. I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Jenner. May I ask one question?
Mr. Oswald, until this afternoon, when you recalled orally here the circumstances and the event of your discussion with your brother on the sixth floor of the Dallas—is that Dallas County?
Mr. McKenzie. No; it is Dallas City Jail.
Mr. Jenner. Dallas City Jail—had I had any conversation with you at all on that subject?
Mr. Oswald. None that I recall, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Thank you.
Mr. McKenzie. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dulles. That will then conclude the testimony of Mr. Robert Oswald, with the understanding that the Commission might later wish to recall him if any facts are adduced that would make that desirable.
Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Dulles—is he now released from his oath to the Commission, subject to recall and being resworn?
Mr. Dulles. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. That is correct. That is my understanding.
In any event, I so agree, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McKenzie. Thank you, sir.
I would like to state to the Commission one further thing, Mr. Dulles, if I may. We very much appreciate, and by "we" I mean myself as counsel, and Mr. Oswald as a witness, the manner in which the Commission and its counsel have conducted the interrogation of Mr. Oswald. We further appreciate the opportunity to be in Washington and to be heard, and hope that in some manner that we may assist in shedding some light that will assist this Commission in making its final report, and that the true facts of this situation will be known to the President of the United States to use at his discretion.
Mr. Dulles. Thank you very much, Mr. McKenzie.
Mr. Jenner. May I ask one more question?
Up until this afternoon when I questioned you, possibly there might have been a question this morning on the subject of any opinion which you might have held dealing with whether your brother did or did not participate in the shooting of Officer Tippit or the assassination of President Kennedy, had I had any conversation with you on that subject?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I believe you had.
Mr. Jenner. When was that?
Mr. Oswald. I believe this was on the first session, during the first session on Wednesday, February 20, 1964.
Mr. Jenner. Was it in this room?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. Jenner. That is all I meant. I had no separate—no conversation with you on the subject other than as I might have put a question to you in the presence of the Commission.
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. Thank you.
Mr. Dulles. And a part of the record.
Mr. Jenner. And as part of the record; yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles. We will adjourn.
(Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
Thursday, February 27, 1964
TESTIMONY OF JAMES HERBERT MARTIN
The President's Commission met 9:25 a.m. on February 27, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Allen W. Dulles, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Paul W. Leech, counsel to James Herbert Martin; Charles Murray and Charles Rhyne, observers; and Dean Robert G. Storey, special counsel to the attorney general of Texas.
The Chairman. The Commission will be in order.
Let the record show that Mr. Martin, first that Commissioners Dulles and Ford and I are present.
Mr. Martin, the witness, is here with his lawyer; would you state your name for the record, please?
Mr. Leech. Paul Leech.
The Chairman. Mr. Leech, I understand you are a partner of Mr. Thorne who was here representing Mrs. Oswald.
Mr. Leech. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Gentlemen, I will just read an opening statement to you that we make for the record and for the benefit of the witness each time we convene.
On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued Executive Order No. 11130 appointing a Commission "to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy, and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination."
On December 13, 1963, Congress adopted Joint Resolution S.J. 137 which authorizes the Commission, or any member of the Commission, or any agent or agency designated by the Commission for such purpose, to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence.
On January 21, 1964, the Commission adopted a resolution