BODENSCHATZ: I have no idea.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What is the difference between a work camp and a concentration camp? You have drawn that distinction.
BODENSCHATZ: A work camp is a camp in which people were housed without their being in any way ill-treated.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And a concentration camp is where they are ill-treated? Is that your testimony?
BODENSCHATZ: Yes. I can only tell you that now because in the meantime I discovered it through the press and through my imprisonment. At that time I did not know it. I learned it from the newspapers. I was a prisoner of war in England for quite a while, and I read about it in the English press.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You spoke of collection camps, that many people knew they were being taken to collection camps to be taken away. Where were they being taken away?
BODENSCHATZ: I do not know where they went from there.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you ever inquire?
BODENSCHATZ: No, I never inquired.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You were adjutant to the Number 2 man in Germany, were you not?
BODENSCHATZ: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you never ventured to ask him about the concentration camps?
BODENSCHATZ: No, I did not speak to him on that subject.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The only instruction you had was to get everybody out that you could.
BODENSCHATZ: Where a request or a complaint was made, I followed those cases down, and in those cases I assisted.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You knew that Hermann Göring was a close co-worker with Himmler, did you not?
BODENSCHATZ: I did not know that he was a fellow worker with Himmler, because he never worked with him directly. Himmler frequently came for discussions with Hermann Göring, but these were private conversations just between the two.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you knew that he was not only a friend, but that he had aided Kaltenbrunner to his post when Kaltenbrunner came into office, did you not?
BODENSCHATZ: No, that I did not know.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You did not know that?
BODENSCHATZ: I did not know that Reich Marshal Göring recommended Kaltenbrunner for his office. My activity was confined simply to the military sector. I was military adjutant to the Reich Marshal. I had nothing to do with these matters.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you have anything to do with the procedure of making full Aryans out of half-Jews?
BODENSCHATZ: On the question of mixed blood, requests concerning the Luftwaffe came to me, and in fact, officers, according to the regulations, would have to be dismissed if they were of mixed blood. In many cases the Reich Marshal gave instructions that these officers should not be dismissed.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What was done about it?
BODENSCHATZ: In these cases the chief of the personnel office was instructed not to dismiss these officers.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And in some cases some kind of an order was made, was it not, that they were full Aryans, notwithstanding Jewish parentage?
BODENSCHATZ: At the moment I can remember no such case.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You spoke of the requests for help from Göring coming from broad masses of the people, and those requests were submitted to his staff. Is that right?
BODENSCHATZ: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And who was the head of that staff?
BODENSCHATZ: At the head of that staff stood the Chief of Staff, Dr. Gritzbach.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How many assistants did he have?
BODENSCHATZ: There were three sections, a press section, with Dr. Gerner in charge of that, and the private secretariat—there were three sections.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And which of these sections handled the peoples’ requests for relief from arrest?
BODENSCHATZ: Dr. Gritzbach and Dr. Gerner were concerned with that.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: To whom did they talk about these matters, do you know?
BODENSCHATZ: These gentlemen, as well as myself, submitted these matters to the Reich Marshal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So that he was kept fully informed of what you did and of what they did?
BODENSCHATZ: Please repeat the question.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The Reich Marshal was kept fully informed of these applications to you and to the other sections?
BODENSCHATZ: He was informed by me.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And, as I understand you, he never failed to give his assistance to any one of the applications that was made to him, so far as you know?
BODENSCHATZ: As regards requests addressed to my office or to me personally he never refused assistance and actually help was always given.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And never inquired into the guilt or innocence of the person he was helping?
BODENSCHATZ: They were innocent; that was clearly established.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you were present on the 20th of July at the bomb explosion, as I understand from your direct testimony?
BODENSCHATZ: On 20 July I was present at that meeting and stood very near the bomb.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Where was Hermann Göring on that day?
BODENSCHATZ: Hermann Göring was in his headquarters on that day, about 70 kilometers from the Führer’s headquarters.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Only 70 kilometers away; is that right? And at what time were you instructed to represent him at that meeting?
BODENSCHATZ: I was not instructed to represent him at this meeting. I took part in this conference, as in any other, as a listener. I had no orders to represent Göring, to represent him in the Führer’s headquarters. I was merely in the Führer’s headquarters to inform him of what went on there.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You represented him to listen, but not to talk; is that right?
BODENSCHATZ: I did not say very much during those years. I was simply a listener and had to inform him as to what took place at the conference; what would interest him in his capacity as Reich Marshal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How far in advance of that meeting were you instructed to attend?
BODENSCHATZ: At this meeting? On 20 July? On 19 July I was on a special commission, sent to the Münster Camp to take part in the review of an Italian division. On 20 July, at noon, I came by air to the Führer’s headquarters, gave Hitler a military communication, and Hitler said to me, “Come and discuss the situation.” I did not want to go, but I went with him and after 15 minutes the attempted assassination took place.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Who sent you with the message? Whose message was it that you were delivering?
BODENSCHATZ: I was commissioned at that time by Reich Marshal Göring to attend the review of the Italian division at the Münster Camp and to tell Field Marshal Graziani that the men in that division were to be used to command flak guns. After Field Marshal Graziani had declared himself in disagreement with this, I was obliged to go to the Führer’s headquarters by air. It had been proposed that I should go by Mussolini’s special train which was in Münster, and on the night of 19 to 20 . . .
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Answer my question, Witness. Just answer the question, please, and you will save us a great deal of time. Whose messages were you carrying to the Führer?
BODENSCHATZ: I brought the message that Graziani was