We're not thinking in terms of these gurus, because these gurus are like the priests in the West. India has this freedom, so everybody sets up his own tiny little shop and sells his own particular wares. That is why you have so many gurus in India, just the way they have priests in the West. In the West organized religion destroyed the possibility of individual growth, you see — they destroyed every dissent, they destroyed every possibility of individuals blossoming into spiritual teachers as in India. But luckily India had this kind of a freedom, and it threw up so many.
But in spite of all that, in spite of the fact that the whole atmosphere is religious (whatever that word means; to me the religious thing you are talking about is nothing but superstition; celebrating all these fasts, feasts, and festivals, and going to the temple is not religion, you see), those teachers have not produced another teacher. There can't be another Buddha within the framework of Buddhism. There can't be another Ramanujacharya within the framework of that school of thought. They have left behind — either they have left behind, or the followers have created — these small, tiny, little colonies. And so all those colonies are fighting all the time — whether you should have the "U" nama or the "V" nama, fighting in the courts whether the elephants should have a "V" mark or a "U" mark. The whole thing has degenerated and deteriorated into such a triviality nowadays.
So, "Is India able to produce an outstanding giant like those people?" is the question which everybody in this country should ask himself or herself — that is number one. Number two: Does this religion, the heritage that you are talking about, operate in the lives of the people? And the third question is: Can it be of any help to solve the economic and political problems of this country? My answer to all these is "No" — to all these questions.
Q: Don't these two things belong to two different planes?
UG: No. Unfortunately we have divided life into material and spiritual — that is the greatest and biggest escape that we have created. You see, it's all one; you can't divide life into material and spiritual. That is where we have gone wrong. So, like the West: only on Sunday are they all religious — they go to the church on Sundays — and the rest of the week they are monsters.
What do you think? What is the good of reading those books, repeating them mechanically? People are repeating, repeating, repeating — they don't even know the meaning of what they are repeating. I listen to the devotional music every morning — not that I'm interested in that or anything; because I am here and the radio is there, I tune in. Those devotional songs — what are they? Do they know the meaning of those things they are singing? It is pornography, I am sorry to say — really, it is pornography. I have come to the conclusion that the composers of all those stotras (verses) were sex-starved people, so they externalized it and put it on the goddess. They do not leave out even one part of the anatomy of the woman in those stotras. I am not condemning.
You can give mystical explanations for all those things — I am not interested in the mystical explanations — that's only a cover-up, a hush-hush policy on the part of those who want to put down the questioning attitude of some of the people, who want to know why these things are there.
I was just telling the people here: the worship of the bull there in the temple, and the worship of Siva — you know that yoni and lingam business — has come down from the original man, to whom sex was the highest kind of pleasure that he knew. Later on man experienced the bliss, the beatitude, and all that moved over; but, originally, sex was the most important thing. Even the cross is a phallic symbol.
In the church they give wine and bread — what does it actually mean? You see, they have copied it from the days of the savages — when a hero died there, they ate his flesh and drank his blood hoping that they would acquire the great traits of the hero. So, that is passed on from generation to generation.
We are carrying on, not knowing, all those silly things that are going on. I'm not blaming, you see, but what is the heritage you are talking about: Can it really solve the economic problems of this country?
The political problems and the economic problems go together. You can't separate them; they are all one. It is all one integrated unity. Why do you separate these two things? Is it possible for you to change the country without a political revolution? Not at all possible. And political revolution is not at all possible in this country, because your constitution says that change, if there is to be any change, should be within the framework of your constitution. That finishes the possibility of any rebellion against the government that is in power. So how do you expect to change that? To get elected as an MP, you have to have millions and millions of rupees — so, once you have spent millions of rupees, you have to make money there. They are not there to serve the country — not at all — so don't blame them.
I say all these social problems have to be handled by the government; there is no room for any private charity anywhere in this world. If the government does not do its duty, throw the government out. Make them do it. So, if they don't do it, you are responsible for it. Why blame the politicians? Blame yourself.
Q: But the government that is elected represents a particular class.
UG: Rich people, you see — "I want my five acres of land to be assured." I have none, so it doesn't matter to me — the land ceiling — nothing affects me. Even if the communists come into power, I have nothing to lose.
Not that the communists can solve the problems; nobody, no party, can solve the problems of India; God alone, if there is a God, and even that if He can. He is singularly incapable of solving (Laughs) the problems of India. It is not a pessimistic evaluation of the problems of India, but I don't see how it is possible. I don't see any hope for this country. I want this country to play a very important role in the affairs of the world. I would be most enchanted (Laughs) if India could play an important part. Even God cannot do it. The all- powerful, almighty God, if there is one — I don't know if there is any — if he can't do it, what can I and you do?
So, I think that one day ... You see, the people are so weak, Sir, they don't blow up the whole thing. If the whole thing is blown up, probably there is some chance ... You see, the problem of this country is that India got her freedom handed to her on a gold platter, whereas all the other countries worked so hard and fought for their freedom, died for freedom — that's really the problem. It was a pity that the British ruled India; if the French or some others had ruled India, it would have been a different country. China had those tremendous military leaders; India cannot produce one leader like Mao Tse-Tung. How can India produce a man like Mao Tse-Tung?
But, another thing, you see: there's no point in looking to those communist nations as a model; India has to evolve its own indigenous revolution. Mao Tse-Tung would be a total failure here; so it has to produce an indigenous product (if I may use the word that way). But the times don't seem to be ripe for that kind of a thing. You see, unless that kind of a thing happens in India, there is no chance, there is no hope.
You see, the times do throw up the individuals: India needed a man like Gandhi at that time, and he was ready; England needed a man like Churchill, and there he was; France needed a man like de Gaulle, and there was the man; Germany needed a man like Hitler, and the man was there. Not that I am supporting or any such thing — but Hitler alone was not responsible;