THE COMPLETE WORKS OF PLATO. Plato . Читать онлайн. Newlib. NEWLIB.NET

Автор: Plato
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not peradventure be deceived by appearances, fancying, perhaps, that we are taking care of ourselves when we are not, what is the meaning of a man taking care of himself? and when does he take care? Does he take care of himself when he takes care of what belongs to him?

      ALCIBIADES: I should think so.

      SOCRATES: When does a man take care of his feet? Does he not take care of them when he takes care of that which belongs to his feet?

      ALCIBIADES: I do not understand.

      SOCRATES: Let me take the hand as an illustration; does not a ring belong to the finger, and to the finger only?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And the shoe in like manner to the foot?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And when we take care of our shoes, do we not take care of our feet?

      ALCIBIADES: I do not comprehend, Socrates.

      SOCRATES: But you would admit, Alcibiades, that to take proper care of a thing is a correct expression?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And taking proper care means improving?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And what is the art which improves our shoes?

      ALCIBIADES: Shoemaking.

      SOCRATES: Then by shoemaking we take care of our shoes?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And do we by shoemaking take care of our feet, or by some other art which improves the feet?

      ALCIBIADES: By some other art.

      SOCRATES: And the same art improves the feet which improves the rest of the body?

      ALCIBIADES: Very true.

      SOCRATES: Which is gymnastic?

      ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

      SOCRATES: Then by gymnastic we take care of our feet, and by shoemaking of that which belongs to our feet?

      ALCIBIADES: Very true.

      SOCRATES: And by gymnastic we take care of our hands, and by the art of graving rings of that which belongs to our hands?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And by gymnastic we take care of the body, and by the art of weaving and the other arts we take care of the things of the body?

      ALCIBIADES: Clearly.

      SOCRATES: Then the art which takes care of each thing is different from that which takes care of the belongings of each thing?

      ALCIBIADES: True.

      SOCRATES: Then in taking care of what belongs to you, you do not take care of yourself?

      ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.

      SOCRATES: For the art which takes care of our belongings appears not to be the same as that which takes care of ourselves?

      ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.

      SOCRATES: And now let me ask you what is the art with which we take care of ourselves?

      ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.

      SOCRATES: At any rate, thus much has been admitted, that the art is not one which makes any of our possessions, but which makes ourselves better?

      ALCIBIADES: True.

      SOCRATES: But should we ever have known what art makes a shoe better, if we did not know a shoe?

      ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

      SOCRATES: Nor should we know what art makes a ring better, if we did not know a ring?

      ALCIBIADES: That is true.

      SOCRATES: And can we ever know what art makes a man better, if we do not know what we are ourselves?

      ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

      SOCRATES: And is self-knowledge such an easy thing, and was he to be lightly esteemed who inscribed the text on the temple at Delphi? Or is self-knowledge a difficult thing, which few are able to attain?

      ALCIBIADES: At times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know himself; at other times the task appears to be very difficult.

      SOCRATES: But whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is no other way; knowing what we are, we shall know how to take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant we shall not know.

      ALCIBIADES: That is true.

      SOCRATES: Well, then, let us see in what way the self-existent can be discovered by us; that will give us a chance of discovering our own existence, which otherwise we can never know.

      ALCIBIADES: You say truly.

      SOCRATES: Come, now, I beseech you, tell me with whom you are conversing? —with whom but with me?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: As I am, with you?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And Alcibiades is my hearer?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And I in talking use words?

      ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

      SOCRATES: And talking and using words have, I suppose, the same meaning?

      ALCIBIADES: To be sure.

      SOCRATES: And the user is not the same as the thing which he uses?

      ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?

      SOCRATES: I will explain; the shoemaker, for example, uses a square tool, and a circular tool, and other tools for cutting?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool?

      ALCIBIADES: Of course not.

      SOCRATES: And in the same way the instrument of the harper is to be distinguished from the harper himself?

      ALCIBIADES: It is.

      SOCRATES: Now the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to be always different from that which he uses?

      ALCIBIADES: I do.

      SOCRATES: Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only or with his hands?

      ALCIBIADES: With his hands as well.

      SOCRATES: He uses his hands too?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?

      ALCIBIADES: He does.

      SOCRATES: And we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he uses?

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the hands and feet which they use?

      ALCIBIADES: Clearly.

      SOCRATES: And does not a man use the whole body?

      ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

      SOCRATES: And that which uses is different from that which is used?

      ALCIBIADES: True.

      SOCRATES: Then a man is not the same as his own body?

      ALCIBIADES: That is the inference.

      SOCRATES: What is he, then?

      ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.

      SOCRATES: Nay, you can say that he is the user of the body.

      ALCIBIADES: Yes.

      SOCRATES: