THE PRESIDENT: Is your name Paul Körner?
PAUL KÖRNER (Witness): Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God—the Almighty and Omniscient—that I will speak the pure truth—and will withhold and add nothing.
[The witness repeated the oath in German.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down if you wish.
DR. STAHMER: Witness, what official post did you hold before the capitulation?
KÖRNER: I was State Secretary in the Prussian State Ministry.
DR. STAHMER: In this capacity were you one of the Reich Marshal’s close collaborators?
KÖRNER: Yes.
DR. STAHMER: When did you first meet the Reich Marshal?
KÖRNER: In 1926.
DR. STAHMER: When were you selected by him to collaborate?
KÖRNER: At the end of 1931.
DR. STAHMER: In what capacity?
KÖRNER: I became his secretary.
DR. STAHMER: When were you taken over by the Civil Service?
KÖRNER: In April 1933. Pardon; the previous date was 1931.
THE PRESIDENT: The translator said the previous date was 1931; which date was 1931?
DR. STAHMER: In 1931 he first came into contact with Göring and became his private secretary. In 1933 he entered the Civil Service.
DR. STAHMER: What post was given to you?
KÖRNER: I became State Secretary in the Prussian State Ministry.
DR. STAHMER: What do you know about the institution of the Secret State Police, the Gestapo?
KÖRNER: In the first months after the seizure of power the Secret State Police evolved from the Political Police Department Ia. Basically the Political Police Department remained; it was only reorganized under the name of Secret State Police.
DR. STAHMER: What was its range of activities?
KÖRNER: Its main task was to watch the enemies of the State.
DR. STAHMER: Have you any information about the establishment of concentration camps?
KÖRNER: I know that at that time concentration camps were established.
DR. STAHMER: What purposes did they serve?
KÖRNER: They were supposed to receive enemies of the State.
DR. STAHMER: What do you mean by “receive”?
KÖRNER: Elements hostile to the State, mainly Communists, were to be concentrated in these camps.
DR. STAHMER: And what was to be done with them there?
KÖRNER: They were to be taken into protective custody, and, as far as I remember, they were also to be re-educated so that later on they could be incorporated into the community of the people.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know anything of the treatment meted out to the inmates?
KÖRNER: As far as I know, the treatment was always good.
DR. STAHMER: Did you ever hear anything about unauthorized concentration camps?
KÖRNER: Yes, in 1933, in various places unauthorized concentration camps were established.
DR. STAHMER: By whom?
KÖRNER: I remember that one was established in Breslau by SA Gruppenführer Heines; and one in Stettin. Whether there were any others, I do not know.
DR. STAHMER: In Stettin?
KÖRNER: I think it was Karpfenstein, but I cannot say for certain.
DR. STAHMER: And what became of these camps?
KÖRNER: When the Reich Marshal heard about them he had them instantly disbanded because they were established without his permission.
DR. STAHMER: What was the Reich Marshal’s attitude when he heard of complaints?
KÖRNER: He always followed them up immediately.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know of any case where he took specially strong measures?
KÖRNER: Yes, I can remember the case of Thälmann.
DR. STAHMER: What happened in that case?
KÖRNER: It had come to the Reich Marshal’s knowledge that Thälmann had not been treated in the way the Reich Marshal wished. He immediately followed the matter up and had Thälmann brought to him.
DR. STAHMER: Who was Thälmann?
KÖRNER: Thälmann was one of the leaders of the Communist Party and a communist member of the Reichstag.
DR. STAHMER: And how did the Reich Marshal speak to Thälmann?
KÖRNER: He had him brought into his office and asked him to tell him exactly why he had made a complaint.
DR. STAHMER: And then?
KÖRNER: Thälmann was very reticent at first, because he feared a trap. When the Reich Marshal spoke to him in a humane manner, he realized that he could speak freely. He told the Reich Marshal that on several occasions he had not been treated properly. The Reich Marshal promised him immediate redress and gave the necessary instructions. He also asked Thälmann to notify him immediately if it happened again. In addition he ordered that any complaints made by Thälmann should be passed on to him.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know how long the Reich Marshal was in charge of the Gestapo in the concentration camps?
KÖRNER: Until the spring of 1934; I believe it was March or April.
DR. STAHMER: Under whom did they come then?
KÖRNER: By order of the Führer, they came under the competence of Reichsführer Himmler.
DR. STAHMER: What do you know about the events in connection with the Röhm revolt on 30 June 1934?
KÖRNER: That a Röhm revolt was planned I heard when I was with the Reich Marshal in Essen, where we were attending the wedding of Gauleiter Terboven. During the wedding festivities Himmler arrived and made a report to the Führer. Later the Führer drew the Reich Marshal aside and told him in confidence of Röhm’s designs.
DR. STAHMER: Do you also know what he told him?
KÖRNER: I can only say that what Himmler told the Führer was also brought to Göring’s knowledge.
DR. STAHMER: Do you not know any further details?
KÖRNER: No, I do not know any further details, but I think that is sufficient.
DR. STAHMER: What instructions did Göring receive?
KÖRNER: The Führer instructed Göring to return to Berlin immediately after the wedding festivities, and the Führer went to southern Germany to investigate the reports personally.
DR. STAHMER: When was this wedding?
KÖRNER: As far as I remember, it was 2 days before the Röhm Putsch.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know whether, on the day after the Röhm Putsch, the Reich Marshal was with Hitler?
KÖRNER: No. The Reich Marshal was in Berlin. We returned to Berlin the same evening.
DR. STAHMER: And on the day after the Röhm Putsch on 30 June, that is on 1 July?
KÖRNER: The Reich Marshal was in Berlin.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know whether there was a conversation between him and Hitler?
KÖRNER: Yes. I remember that the