Rede Globo
For a Church That Is Near
Gerson Camarotti
Thursday, July 25, 2013
Pope Francis’s interview with Rede Globo during his Brazil trip received little attention in the Western media at the time, given the focus on the pope’s memorable activities at World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro. The interview, however, provided several key insights into why he chose a humble Ford Focus as his main vehicle in Rome and also why he chose to live at the Casa Santa Marta, the Vatican hotel, instead of the Apostolic Palace.
His discussion of the phenomenon of Catholics leaving for Pentecostal and evangelical churches is also significant, especially his emphasis on the need for priests—for the Church—to be close to the people. “Closeness,” Pope Francis tells his interviewer, “is one of the pastoral models for the Church today.”
During his trip to Rio de Janeiro, the Pope granted a lengthy interview in Spanish to Gerson Camarotti of GloboNews, which aired on Sunday, July 28, during a program entitled Fantástico that was broadcast over the Brazilian network, Rede Globo. An Italian translation appeared in the Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, on August 1, 2013. The following is an English translation of that interview, which was conducted in Spanish and Portuguese.
Pope Francis, you arrived in Brazil and were warmly welcomed by the people of Brazil. There is a historic rivalry between Brazil and Argentina, at least in regard to football. What was your reaction to such a gesture of affection?
I felt welcomed with affection that I have never experienced—a very warm, warm welcome. The Brazilian people have a big heart. I think the rivalry is now a thing of the past, because we have reached a deal: the pope is Argentine and God is Brazilian.
It’s a great solution, isn’t it, Holy Father?
I felt very welcome, with great affection.
Holy Father, you used a very simple car here in Brazil. People say that you have even reprimanded priests who use luxury cars around the world. You also decided to reside at the Santa Marta guesthouse [the Vatican hotel built chiefly to house the cardinals during a conclave]. Is this simplicity a new direction that priests, bishops, and cardinals have to follow?
These are two different things that are distinct and need to be explained. The car that I used here is very similar to the one I use in Rome. In Rome, I use a blue Ford Focus, a simple car that anyone might use. In this regard, I think we have to give witness to a certain degree of simplicity, I would even say of poverty. Our people demand poverty from our priests. They demand it in the best sense of the word. People feel sad when we, who are consecrated, are attached to money. It’s not a good thing. It really isn’t a good example that a priest should have the latest model or the latest brand. I say this to priests; in Buenos Aires, I used to say it all the time: Parish priests need to have a car because there are thousands of things that you need to do in a parish, and you need to get around. But it must be an unpretentious car. So much for the car!
As regards my decision to live at Santa Marta, it was not so much for reasons of simplicity, because the papal apartment, though big, is not luxurious. It’s nice, but not as luxurious as the library on the floor below, where you receive people, with its very beautiful works of art. It’s pretty simple. However, my decision to live in Santa Marta is based on how I am. I cannot live alone. I cannot live isolated. I need contact with people. So, I usually explain it like this: I decided to stay at Santa Marta for psychological reasons, so I wouldn’t suffer the loneliness, which is not good for me, and also for reasons of poverty, because otherwise I would have to pay a psychiatrist a lot of money. That wouldn’t be good.
It’s to be with people. Santa Marta is a home that is home to about forty bishops and priests who work for the Holy See. It has 130 rooms, more or less, and priests, bishops, cardinals, and laypeople who are guests in Rome reside there. There, I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner in the dining room. I always meet all different kinds of people, which is good for me. This is the reason.
Then, too, there is a general rule. I believe God is calling us at this time to greater simplicity. It’s an interior thing that he is asking of the Church. The council had already drawn our attention to this—a life that is simpler and poorer. This is the general direction. I don’t know if I answered your questions about the car, Santa Marta, and the general direction. Did I?
I have been very struck by the fact that you will be canonizing Pope John XXIII. Is he a model that you wish to hold up?
I believe that the two popes who will be canonized during the same ceremony are two models of the Church as it moves on. Both have borne witness to renewal in the Church, in continuity with the tradition of the Church. Both have opened doors to the future. John XXIII opened the door to the [Second Vatican] Council, which continues to inspire us today and which has not been put entirely into practice. A council, in order to be put into practice, takes about one hundred years, which means that we are halfway along the way. John Paul II took up his suitcase and traveled around the world. A missionary, he set forth to proclaim. He was a missionary. They are two great men from the Church today. For this reason, it will be a pleasure for me to see the Church proclaim them saints on the same day and in the same ceremony. [The two popes were canonized on April 27, 2014.]
It is highly symbolic, which I, too, consider very important. Holy Father, when you arrived in Rio de Janeiro, a lot of mistakes were made in terms of security. Your car was in the middle of the crowd. Were you afraid? What was your feeling at that moment?
I wasn’t afraid. I’m a little reckless, but I’m not afraid. I know that no one dies before his time. When my time comes, what God wills, will be. Before we left, we went to see the popemobile that was going to be sent there. It had so many windows! If you’re going to see someone you love so much, some good friends with whom you want to be in touch, are you going to visit them in a glass case? No! I couldn’t go to see people with such big hearts in a glass case. When I go out on the streets in the car, I roll down the window so I can put my hand out to greet people. It’s all or nothing. Either a person makes the journey and communicates with the people like it should be done, or doesn’t make it at all. Halfhearted communication doesn’t do any good.
I’m grateful—and on this point I want to be very clear—for the Vatican security personnel, for the way in which they prepared my visit, for the zeal that they demonstrated. And I am also grateful for the security personnel in Brazil. I am very grateful to them because even here they have been taking great care of me, and they did not want anything unpleasant to happen to me. It can happen; someone can take a shot at me. It can happen. Both security forces worked very well. But both realize that I am undisciplined in this regard. I don’t do it because I want to be some kind of enfant terrible. I simply do it because I have come to visit the people, and I want to treat them like people. I want to touch them.
Your good friend, the Brazilian Cardinal Cláudio Hummes, has spoken on several occasions of your concern for the loss of so many of the faithful here on this continent, especially in Brazil, who are joining other denominations, mainly evangelical ones. I ask you, therefore, why this happens, and what can be done?
I don’t know the causes or the percentages. I heard a lot about this issue—this concern for the people who are leaving—during two synods of bishops, for sure during the synod in 2001 and then in another synod. I do not know enough about life in Brazil to give an answer. I believe that Cardinal Hummes was one of those who spoke about it, but I’m not sure of that. If you say he has spoken about it, it’s because you know.
I can’t explain it. There is one thing I can imagine. For me it is essential that the Church be close to the people. The Church is mother, and neither you nor I know of any mother who mothers from a distance by letter. A mother gives affection, touches, [and] kisses, and loves. When