Mrs. Oswald. The same type of apartment.
Mr. Rankin. Was the only difference the terrace then?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes, except that it was on the second floor. It was a second-floor apartment.
Mr. Rankin. Was the Elsbeth Street apartment a first-floor apartment?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes.
Mr. Rankin. What about the rent? Was there a difference in rent between the two places?
Mrs. Oswald. No, it was the same rent. It is perhaps even less. It seems to me it was $55.
Mr. Rankin. Did you have any differences with your husband while you were at Neely Street?
Mrs. Oswald. No. Well, there are always some reasons for some quarrel between a husband and wife, not everything is always smooth.
Mr. Rankin. I had in mind if there was any violence or any hitting of you. Did that occur at Neely Street?
Mrs. Oswald. No. That was on Elsbeth Street.
Mr. Rankin. Do you recall what brought that about?
Mrs. Oswald. Not quite. I am trying to remember. It seems to me that it was at that time that Lee began to talk about his wanting to return to Russia. I did not want that and that is why we had quarrels.
Mr. Rankin. Did you have discussions between you about this idea of returning to Russia?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes. Lee wanted me to go to Russia. I told him that that—Lee wanted me to go to Russia, and I told him that if he wanted me to go then that meant that he didn't love me, and that in that case what was the idea of coming to the United States in the first place. Lee would say that it would be better for me if I went to Russia. I did not know why. I did not know what he had in mind. He said he loved me but that it would be better for me if I went to Russia, and what he had in mind I don't know.
Mr. Rankin. Do you know when he first started to talk about your going to Russia?
Mrs. Oswald. On Elsbeth Street.
Mr. Rankin. Do you remember any occasion which you thought caused him to start to talk that way?
Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't.
Mr. Rankin. Do you know why he started to hit you about that?
Mrs. Oswald. Now, I think that I know, although at that time I didn't. I think that he was very nervous and just this somehow relieved his tension.
Mr. Rankin. Did you observe sometime when you thought he changed?
Mrs. Oswald. I would say that immediately after coming to the United States Lee changed. I did not know him as such a man in Russia.
Mr. Rankin. Will you describe how you observed these changes and what they were as you saw them?
Mrs. Oswald. He helped me as before, but he became a little more of a recluse. He did not like my Russian friends and he tried to forbid me to have anything to do with them.
He was very irritable, sometimes for a trifle, for a trifling reason.
Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you why he did not like your Russian friends?
Mrs. Oswald. I don't know why he didn't like them. I didn't understand. At least that which he said was completely unfounded. He simply said some stupid or foolish things.
Mr. Rankin. Will you tell us the stupid things that he said?
Mrs. Oswald. Well, he thought that they were fools for having left Russia; they were all traitors. I would tell him he was in the same position being an American in America but there were really no reasons but just irritation. He said that they all only like money, and everything is measured by money. It seems to me that perhaps he was envious of them in the sense they were more prosperous than he was. When I told him, when I would say that to him he did not like to hear that.
Perhaps I shouldn't say these foolish things and I feel kind of uncomfortable to talk about the foolish things that happened or what he said foolish things.
This is one of the reasons why I don't know really the reasons for these quarrels because sometimes the quarrels were just trifles. It is just that Lee was very unrestrained and very explosive at that time.
Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, we will ask you to be very frank with us. It isn't for the purpose of embarrassing you or your husband that we ask you these things but it might help us to understand and even if you will tell us the foolish and stupid things it may shed some light on the problem. You understand that?
Mrs. Oswald. I understand you are not asking these questions out of curiosity but for a reason.
Mr. Rankin. Did your husband indicate any particular Russian friends that he disliked more than others?
Mrs. Oswald. He liked De Mohrenschildt but he—because he was a strong person, but only De Mohrenschildt. He did not like Bouhe or Anna Meller.
Mr. Rankin. Did you ever tell him you liked these people?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I told him all the time that I liked these people and that is why he was angry at me and would tell me that I was just like they were. At one time I left him and went to my friends because he put me into—put me on the spot by saying, "Well, if you like your friends so much then go ahead and live with them," and he left me no choice.
Mr. Rankin. When was this, Mrs. Oswald?
Mrs. Oswald. On Elsbeth Street.
Mr. Rankin. How long were you gone from him then?
Mrs. Oswald. One week.
Mr. Rankin. Did he ask you to return?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I took June and I went to Anna Meller, took a cab and went there. I spent several days with her. Lee didn't know where I was but he called up and about 2 or 3 days after I came to and we met at De Mohrenschildt's house and he asked me to return home. I, of course, did not want a divorce but I told him it would be better to get a divorce rather than to continue living and quarreling this way. After all this is only a burden on a man if two people live together and fight. I simply wanted to show him, too, that I am not a toy. That a woman is a little more complicated. That you cannot trifle with her.
Mr. Rankin. Did you say anything at that time about how he should treat you if you returned?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I told him if he did not change his character, then it would become impossible to continue living with him. Because if there should be such quarrels continuously that would be crippling for the children.
Mr. Rankin. What did he say to that?
Mrs. Oswald. Then he said that it would be—it was very hard for him. That he could not change. That I must accept him, such as he was. And he asked me to come back home with him right on that day but he left feeling bad because I did not go and remained with my friend.
Mr. Rankin. What did you say about accepting him as he was?
Mrs. Oswald. I told him I was not going to. Of course, such as he was for me he was good, but I wanted simply for the sake of the family that he would correct his character. It isn't that I didn't mean to say he was good for me, I meant to say that I could stand him, but for the sake of the children I wanted him to improve his behavior.
Mr. Rankin. Then did he get in touch with you again?
Mrs. Oswald. At that time there was very little room at Anna Meller's and it was very uncomfortable and I left and went to Katya Ford whose husband at that time happened to be out of town on business. I spent several days with Katya Ford but then when her husband returned I did not want to remain with her. And it was on a Sunday morning then when I moved over to Anna Ray. Lee called me and said he wanted to see me, that he had come by bus and he wanted to see me and he came that evening and he cried and said that he wanted me to return home because if I did not return he did not want to continue living. He said he didn't know how to love me in any other way and that he will try to change.
Mr. Rankin. While you were at