Mr. Dulles. Do we know the time this was taken?
Mr. Rankin. Can you tell about the time this was taken?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes. This, I understand, was when President Kennedy was shot. He is supposed to be holding his throat here. And this is the car. This is right after he passed the book depository, when he is supposed to have been shot.
The Chairman. Very well. We will adjourn until tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 4:55 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
Wednesday, February 12, 1964
TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARGUERITE OSWALD RESUMED
The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 12, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Representative Hale Boggs and Representative Gerald R. Ford, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; and John F. Doyle, attorney for Mrs. Marguerite Oswald.
The Chairman. The Commission will be in order.
We will proceed to the hearing.
The Chairman. Mrs. Oswald, did you have anything you wanted to say to us this morning before we start the questioning?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I meant to yesterday morning. I have two or three things that are worrying me.
Mr. Rankin, on Monday, when I testified that I had not been questioned officially, you told me that I had. And if I remember correctly, sir, you said that there was 28 pages of testimony, or was it 8 pages?
Mr. Rankin. Twenty-eight, I think.
Mrs. Oswald. Well, Mr. Doyle, as my attorney—I am very concerned about that, because I want to know—if it is my testimony—because the little while—the testimony that I gave to the FBI when I entered the courthouse was approximately about 10 minutes. They immediately left to investigate. They did not talk to me again, sir.
And then the only other testimony that I gave on tape was the starting of Lee's defection at the Six Flags Inn, which I would say ran approximately 10 or 15 minutes. And that is the only time I have testified.
Now, if you have all this other testimony from me, I don't think it is fair, because I should know what I am supposed to have said. I need to know what I am supposed to have said.
The Chairman. Mrs. Oswald, whatever we have that we are told you have said, you and your attorney are entitled to see, and I will see that you can. We won't delay the proceeding this morning. But you may see it before you leave the building.
Mrs. Oswald. Yes—it is very important to know that.
Thank you, Justice Warren.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, on that point, will it be satisfactory if we furnish a clean photostatic copy to Mr. Doyle?
The Chairman. Yes, that will be satisfactory. You may do that, yes.
Mrs. Oswald. I certainly need to know what I am supposed to have said.
There is an FBI agent by the name of Mr. John Fain. I will ask you, Mr. Rankin, if you have his address, or do you know about Mr. John Fain?
Mr. Rankin. I know of Mr. John Fain as one of the agents that had some interviews with your son.
Mrs. Oswald. Now, Mr. John Fain is the agent that I called upon myself after Lee's defection. I read where the Secret Service were investigating the family background, and I mistook it for the FBI. So I called the FBI and he came to my home. And he is the agent who recommended me to talk to Jim Wright and Sam Rayburn as a friend, and to write the letters.
Now, the one point I am going to bring out is this. When Lee returned from Russia and was at Robert's home, Mr. Fain—in the meantime he had come over to Robert and talked to him several times, and to me, supposedly as a friend—he said he was not on the case. I do not know this. But he came to Robert's home and said to Lee—my daughter-in-law is a witness there—"Lee, I am not on the case, but I would like you voluntarily to come to the office at your convenience and tell me your story, because I am interested in your case. Your mother was the one who contacted me. And I have been to see Robert. And I am quite interested in a young boy going to Russia. And you must have a story."
So Lee voluntarily went with Mr. Fain to the FBI office.
Then when Lee returned, his remark was "Well, he didn't believe me. He wanted me to take a lie detector test, which I refused."
Now, Mr. John Fain may have the story we are looking for, you see—because Lee went and gave the story.
And I want to make sure you know where he is now.
I have information from Senator Mike Monroney that in March—I am ahead of my story.
The FBI agents now in Fort Worth have told me they do not know Mr. John Fain. I said I happen to know that is his name.
"Well, Mrs. Oswald, I worked in this office 9 years, and there has never been such a person as Mr. John Fain."
So I have investigated. And Senator Mike Monroney gave this information. He did work in the Fort Worth office from March 1949 to October 1962, and then he retired in January 15, 1963. He is not a man to retire as far as age, as far as I am concerned. I don't think Mr. John Fain is that old.
The Chairman. We will check that out.
Mrs. Oswald. I have his last address in Houston, if you don't have it.
All right. Fine.
Now, one thing about Lee being an agent I read.
The neighbors that were interviewed in Fort Worth, Tex., by the FBI—this is from newspaper accounts—said that Lee always walked a few feet in front of his wife when they went walking, and they wondered about that, because it was very strange that he should walk ahead. I am speculating maybe, but maybe there is a reason that Lee would walk ahead to protect his wife.
That is my reasoning—as an agent.
The letter that is missing—and Mr. Doyle can verify this—the first letter to Lee is missing, that Lee wrote to me, rather, from Russia. And this letter stated—and it seemed to me, Mr. Rankin, I have seen it in one of the magazines—as I have stated I have sold several of Lee's letters. And maybe in the rush the letter got lost or stolen, I don't know.
But his first letter, he told me not to send him any money.
"I repeat, do not send any money as it is not necessary for you to pay me back. You could send reading matter. I am lonesome to read. Also, send a can of Rise Shaving Cream, a Gillette Razor," and there was a book he wanted to read, I believe it was 1984.
Mr. Rankin. What date was this you sent that?
Mrs. Oswald. This is a letter Lee sent to me that is missing—the first letter that Lee sent to me. And why I sent the money—because I had used his income tax return, which was $33, because Lee was lost—and I was destitute, and I knew Lee would never prosecute his mother for using his money, because Lee would help me.
Mr. Rankin. You mean that was a refund.
Mrs. Oswald. A refund. And I got the refund and used it, sir. And I also used Lee's first check that came from the Marines. And I had no way of knowing where Lee was. And I used it. And so I offered to pay Lee back. And this letter has been printed. I have seen it. But I do not have it. So that is very important.
Mr. Doyle. As you had mentioned, you and I went through the papers that you had brought with you from your home in Texas to Washington, and we did not find