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UG: Thought and life are one interfluent movement. But there seems to be a movement of thought, parallel to the movement of life going on in you all the time. There seems to be; otherwise there would be no need for us to sit and talk about this — listening to me, or trying to understand me, would not be there. If there were no continuity of thought in you, this situation which we have created for ourselves in this room wouldn't exist any more. You would 't want to listen to any chap describing how he is functioning — why should you? If he is functioning that way, all right, jolly good. Why are you interested in that? Why do you establish any relationship?
As long as you listen to me, you are lost. You listen to me because you want to understand what I am talking about. Not that it is something abstract or difficult; but your understanding is through that instrument (the thinking mechanism), and that is not the instrument (to understand this). The refined, sensitized instrument, you call 'intuition', but there is no other instrument. If that is not the instrument and there is no other instrument, the logical conclusion from that statement is: Is there anything to understand? There is nothing to understand. If that understanding is there somehow....
That understanding is here somehow. I don't know how it came — that is why I cannot take you there — it has no cause. You are interested in finding out the cause because you want it to happen in you; otherwise you would not be interested in the cause.
So it is not a question of understanding me; it is not possible to understand me. It is just not possible to understand. The only thing you can understand is within that framework and in relation to that reference point. You think that the more you listen, the more these things become clear to you; but the clarity of thought is making it more difficult for you to understand what I am talking about. So you come back year after year, and you think things are becoming clearer and clearer for you; but actually it is destroying the possibility of understanding anything.
There is nothing to understand — that understanding somehow is there, and how it came about nobody knows, and there is no way at all of making you see this, and you ask "Why do you talk?" You come here.
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As long as you think that you can see more and more clearly, I say you have seen nothing. J. Krishnamurti says "Seeing is the end." If you say you have seen, you have not seen, because seeing is the end of the structure that says that. There is no seeing you can know. In other words, there is no seeing. As long as you think you can understand this more, see the world around you more clearly, I say you will see nothing and understand nothing. This conversation is not going to get you anywhere. My only interest is to end all this.
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The difference between you and me is that you are trying to understand. The absence of what is going on there is what is here. Discussion only adds to the confusion — it is completely useless. I can only point out the obstacle, that's all.
Q: Is this some kind of preparation?
UG: It is not. I repeat endlessly "Inquiry is useless," but you want to apply the techniques you have learnt in life to this. You say "Buddha sat under a tree and said he would not move." He had done everything and realized that nothing could help him. He knew that nothing could help him, and probably something happened then. You argue "He did this, so why can't I follow the same path?" but it is totally different for you; you are not in that position; you still hope something will happen. The point is that there is nothing to understand.
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Q: When you say "I don't know a thing," does it not imply that you know?
UG: You see, it is not that I know I am in a state of not knowing; the statement "I don't know a thing" is an expression of that state. Be very clear about it. It is not that I say to myself that I don't know what I am looking at; that state is throwing out the expression "I don't know" — that is the expression, the description of the state by itself. Not that there is somebody who is saying "I don't know;" the state itself says, by itself, "I really don't know a thing about it." It is
so!
Q: "It is so" sounds like a dogmatic statement.
UG: When all attempts and efforts on your part fail to fit what is being said into the logical framework, the rational framework, I have to say that you cannot in any way understand what it is all about; it is beyond logic, it is beyond rationality, it is so. You have to accept or reject the statement that I don't know a thing about it. It is not a positive statement. You can never experience it. Don't try! That is not going to help you at all. It is so. There are no two ways about it. Not that I am being dogmatic. It is not a dogmatic statement. I really don't know a thing. It is so, because you, the structure trying to understand, are not going to understand — in that sense, it is so. It is so here: I can't understand a thing about it. It is so here; it must be so there also. It is not so there, because you are still trying to understand, experience, something which you can never understand.
There is a difficulty of understanding here. (We are using such simple English. They (the Upanishadic sages?) talked at a time when words had completely different meanings — there were no tape-recorders, no stenographers; their students listened and passed it on.) That is why I often ask "What is my teaching? Please tell me." I don't know a thing about my teaching. I don't know a thing about my state — not that I can; I know I cannot — the limitation is there. It has its own limitation, and it has understood its limitation. It cannot experience that at all — that's all I am saying. Since I don't know a thing about my state, I can't make any statement, either positive or negative, because both positive and negative statements are within the field of thought. But you are saying a lot about my state: you seem to know a lot more about my state than I do. How can you say anything about my state? You are not saying anything about my state; all this is an interpretation of what I am saying. You see, your very listening is an interpretation. You cannot listen to what I am saying. If you are in that state where there is just an echo of what I am saying, repeating the words without understanding them, you really don't know what this chap is talking about, and you don't even try to understand. If there were any listening, all that you are saying would be absent — that is why I say you are not listening.
I am telling you the simple fact that you cannot listen to me at all. Your listening to me or not is not the point; you cannot listen to what I am saying at all. Whatever you make out of your listening is your own listening, not what I am saying. What I am saying, you don't know, I don't know. (Laughter) I am not saying anything about that at all; the only thing I am saying is that you are not listening, because you can't listen. You can't listen, so don't try! — that's all I am saying.
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What I am saying has no logic. If it has a logic, it has a logic of its own — I don't know anything about it. But you have necessarily to fit me into the logical structure of your thought; otherwise the logical structure there, the rational thing, comes to an end. You see, you have to rationalize — that is what you are. But this has nothing to do with rationality, it has nothing to do with your logic — that doesn't mean that it is illogical or irrational.
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What do you want to understand? There is nothing to understand — that is the understanding I am talking about. If you understand what it is all about, what I am talking about, you are already there. It will be something new, something totally new. You will give expression to it in a completely different way. You will not repeat what Buddha said, what Jesus said, what JK said, or what some other Krishnamurti is saying. It will be new, and it will express itself in a totally different way. How will it express itself, I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. If others fit me into their frameworks, it is their business; we do not have any vested interest in that.
You will probably fit me into