The last clause of Resolution 6, authorizing an exertion of the force of the whole aagainst a delinquent State came next into consideration.
Mr. Madison, observed that the more he reflected on the use of force, the more he doubted, the practicability, the justice and the efficacy of it when applied to people collectively and not individually. — A union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound. He hoped that such a system would be framed as might render this resource unnecessary, and moved that the clause be postponed. This motion was agreed to, nem. con.
The Committee then rose & the House
Adjourned.11
1 "This day the state of New Jersey was represented, so that there were now ten states in Convention." — Yates, Secret Proceedings, etc., 99. But in the Journal of the Federal Convention (1819), as in Madison's account, New Jersey is entered as present May 25th. On May 30 two votes are recorded by Madison and in the Journal without New Jersey. It is probable that an error was made in the Journal and that Madison followed it.
Rufus King kept a few notes of the proceedings of the convention from May 31st to August 8th. They are meagre, but corroborate Madison's report. See King's Life and Correspondence of Rufus King, i., 587.
Pierce also kept a few rough notes of the proceedings which were printed in the Savannah Georgian, April 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, and 28, 1828, and reprinted in The American Historical Review, iii., 317 et seq. They throw little additional light on the debates, but wherever they do are quoted here, as are King's.
3 "Mr. Strong would agree to the principle, provided it would undergo a certain modification, but pointed out nothing." — Pierce's Notes, Am. Hist. Rev., iii., 318.
4 "Mr. King observed that the Question called for was premature, and out of order, — that unless we go on regularly from one principle to the other we shall draw out our proceedings to an endless length." — Pierce's Notes, Am. Hist. Rev., iii., 318.
5 "Butler said that until the number of the Senate could be known it would be impossible for him to give a vote on it." — Pierce's Notes, Am. Hist. Rev., iii., 318.
6 "Mr. Butler moved to have the proposition relating to the first branch postponed, in order to take up another, — which was that the second branch of the Legislature consist of blank.
According to Pierce, Mason spoke after Sherman, and Pinckney's motion is given more fully by Pierce than by Madison.
"Mr. Mason was of opinion that it would be highly improper to draw the Senate out of the first branch; that it would occasion vacancies which would cost much time, trouble, and expense to have filled up, — besides which it would make the members too dependent on the first branch.
"Mr. Pinckney said he meant to propose to divide the Continent into four Divisions, out of which a certain number of persons should be nominated, and out of that nomination to appoint a senate." — Pierce's Notes, Amer. Hist. Rev., iii., 319.
8 This question is omitted in the printed Journal, & the votes applied to the succeeding one, instead of the votes as here stated. — Madison's Note.
9 "Mr. Rutledge is one of those characters who was highly mounted at the commencement of the late revolution; — his reputation in the first Congress gave him a distinguished rank among the American Worthies. He was bred to the Law, and now acts as one of the Chancellors of South Carolina. This Gentleman is much famed in his own State as an Orator, but in my opinion he is too rapid in his public speaking to be denominated an agreeable Orator. He is undobotedly a man of abilities, and a Gentleman of distinction and fortune. Mr. Rutledge was once Governor of South Carolina. He is about 48 years of age." — Pierce's Notes, Amer. Hist. Rev., iii., 333.
According to Pierce: "Mr. Sherman was of opinion that it would be too indefinitely expressed, — and yet it would be hard to define all the powers by detail. It appeared to him that it would be improper for the national Legislature to negative all the Laws that were connected with the States themselves.
"Mr. Madison said it was necessary to adopt some general principles on which we should act, — that we were wandering from one thing to another without seeming to be settled in any one principle.
"Mr. Wythe observed that it would be right to establish general principles before we go into detail, or very shortly Gentlemen would find themselves in confusion, and would be obliged to have recurrence to the point from whence they sat out.
"Mr. King was of opinion that the principles ought first to be established before we proceed to the framing of the Act. He apprehends that the principles only go so far as to embrace all the power that is given up by the people to the Legislature, and to the federal Government, but no farther.
"Mr. Randolph was of opinion that it would be impossible to define the powers and the length to which the federal Legislature ought to extend just at this time.
"Mr. Wilson observed that it would be impossible to enumerate the powers which the federal Legislature ought to have." — Pierce's Notes, Id., iii., 319, 320.
"When the Convention first opened at Philadelphia, there were a number of propositions brought forward as great leading principles for the new Government to be established for the United States. A copy of these propositions was given to each Member with an injunction to keep everything a profound secret. One morning, by accident, one of the Members dropt his copy of the propositions, which being luckily picked up by General Mifflin was presented to General Washington, our President, who put it in his pocket. After the debates of the Day were over, and the question for adjournment was called for, the General arose from his seat, and previous to his putting the question addressed the Convention in the following manner, —
"'Gentlemen
"'I am sorry to find that some one Member of this Body, has been so neglectful of the secrets of the Convention as to drop in the State House, a copy of their proceedings, which by accident was picked up and delivered to me this Morning. I must entreat Gentlemen to be more careful, lest our transactions get into the News Papers, and disturb the public repose by premature speculations. I know not whose Paper it is, but there it is [throwing it down on the table,] let him who owns it take it.' At the same time he bowed, picked up his Hat, and quitted the room with a dignity so severe that every Person seemed alarmed; for my part I was extremely so, for putting