So, as you can imagine, it was a crazy show. When you start looking for these references—arcane and goofy but perfectly wonderful things—other things turn up. There’s an early Matisse in the show, a portrait of Madame Matisse sitting in the front seat of the car, looking through the windshield.
He composed the whole painting as a horizontal structure, based on the kind of horizontal windshields cars had in the 1920s. I had a wonderful picture by Alfred Stieglitz—a cityscape of old New York—where two things suggest the coming of Modernism. One is the steel frame of a skyscraper going up, and here, coming down the street, is a very early automobile—the first picture Stieglitz ever took that has an automobile in it.
I was very serious and intrigued with that 1984 show. But the local critics didn’t care for it much—the local critic here in Los Angeles.
HUO Did it bring a non-specialized audience to the museum?
WH It was very, very popular. People who would never come down to look at modern art were there.
HUO Your first gallery, the Syndell Studio, was an almost-private venue. Action 1 and Action 2, on the other hand, were very public venues. What about the Ferus Gallery? Was it a more in-between place for artists?
WH It was relatively more private, but less so than Syndell. Ferus was a complicated thing, in that when Kienholz and I ran it as partners from 1957 to 1958 we did it in our own clean, but bohemian, way. We did it just the way we wanted. We didn’t care whether we sold work or not. I had enough money to pay the rent. But a number of the artists we represented started getting impatient—they wanted more material success. So the later history of Ferus, after 1958—when I hired Irving Blum to be director—well, I didn’t compromise the kind of art, but it was meant to be more conventionally economic. I had no idea what the gross sales would have been at the old Ferus Gallery for a year—maybe $5,000, if that? In about eight months of the first year of the new Ferus, we’d sold $120,000 worth of art. But it was a thoroughly commercial enterprise at that point.
HUO So at first the idea was to create a platform?
WH That’s right. I mean, we could show this wonderful woman, Jay DeFeo, when there wasn’t anyone to buy her work. Now she’s in the Beat show at the Whitney. She’s a heroine, and deservedly so. The style of the first Ferus was to resemble what an artist’s working studio was like—or a salon that artists would run themselves, although they didn’t. Kienholz could be ruthless with other artists; he was a taskmaster. I was never as blunt as he was. Sometimes he would cancel a show if he didn’t think the work looked good enough. He would just say: “C’mon, get to work—let’s see something better. We’re not going to show junk. It’s not good for you, it’s not good for us.” The first Ferus looked as though it didn’t care whether it was successful or not. Somehow clients could tell that. People came to it like it was a little Kunsthalle.
The second one, with Blum, took exactly the opposite tack—it was to look very well-to-do, as if it were doing successful business—whether we were or not. And, I tell you, that approach works. It does work.
HUO So at the beginning it was almost like an artists’ collective?
WH Right. The solidarity between the artists was very strong. That’s the positive side. The negative side, by the way, is that the artists felt they had a ruthless say over who else would be part of the enterprise.
Robert Irwin, for example, was an artist who wasn’t with Ferus in the beginning, and his work was kind of weak—very lyric, easygoing, a not very powerful version of Diebenkorn. He was a conventional abstract lyric painter; his paintings weren’t bad, but they were of no particular distinction. He desperately wanted to be shown by Ferus, but there wasn’t a single artist in the Ferus Gallery—around Los Angeles, anyway—who wanted him in there.
I was president of the corporation. Being with him and looking at what he was up to—hearing what he was thinking about—I knew something was going to come of him. But a tyranny of the majority would have prevented it. So there are times when you just have to risk losing everyone’s good opinion and sort of ram it down their throats—that was one. So I just, by sheer will, forced an Irwin show in there. And he turned out to be quite an important artist, obviously. He knocked himself out with his first show trying to do the work. It owed a lot to Clyfford Still—it was a transition. And by his second show, things got different very quickly.
HUO At Ferus there was the idea that you did everything yourself. Harald Szeemann once defined the functions of the Ausstellungsmacher—the one who puts on an exhibition—as an administrator, amateur, author of introductions, librarian, manager and accountant, animator, conservator, financier, and diplomat. This list can be expanded by adding the functions of the guard, the transporter, the communicator, and the researcher.
WH That’s absolutely true. I’ll tell you the worst thing I ever had to do. From time to time—maybe once a year—we would do a historical show. Nobody was showing Josef Albers in California, so we showed Albers. Prior to that we did a joint show of Kurt Schwitters’ collages and Jasper Johns’ sculpture.
Anyway, one of the painters I loved—and I realized that a number of the artists, including Irwin, also really loved him—was Giorgio Morandi. No one was showing Morandi in the Western United States. I had been traveling, and I came back and discovered that Blum had not put an image of Morandi on the invitation. I was really furious. I said, “One in the thousand people who get our invitation will even know who Giorgio Morandi is. We’ve got to have one of his drawings on this invitation.”
Well, he hadn’t had a photographer come in to take a picture. I said: “Clear this desk off. I’m going in the back and choosing a drawing.” I picked out a Morandi drawing that was strong enough—it had glass over it—and I laid it down on the table. I took a piece of paper and laid it over the glass, took a soft pencil—and I’m not an artist; Blum would have been better, because he can draw—and I traced out that Morandi drawing, to life size, in my own crude version. Traced the son of a bitch out on a blank piece of paper, and I said: “There’s the artwork.”
Blum said: “You can’t do that. You’ve just made a fake Morandi.”
I said: “You watch me do it. You just watch me do it.” And that went to the printer, so it’s printed in red with its line cut very elegantly on a paper. We waited to see who would identify it as a fake. Never—no one, no one. Szeemann is right—there’s no telling what you’ll have to do.
HUO Certainly, in a small place like Ferus, you got used to doing everything yourself. Soon afterward, in 1962, you began curating and directing the museum in Pasadena. With only a few employees, you succeeded in doing an amazing number of exhibitions, 12 or 14 a year. You must have worked with enormous efficiency in such a small operation. You did big shows on Cornell, Duchamp, Jasper Johns, and so on—in a very short time.
WH Yeah. You have to be energetic and have good people. Sometimes the measures are extreme.
HUO And the museum was also a very small structure, wasn’t it?